helllloooo everyone,.
after reading this board for quite a while, i've finally been moved to post.
i was inspired by our trip to the dallas apostachilifest, where princess and i met lots of terrific people in various stages of exit from the j-ho's.
Codeblue And here we are to another Sunday already. I'm sipping some strong, hot coffee, tapping keys. My daughter, Zoe, is 6 years old today. She got up before 6:30 this morning, looking for someone to tell, I'm sure. She's a proud girl. I personally believe that anything goes on Sundays, as long as it doesn't involve the J-ho's. Might I suggest the purchase of a loyal pit bull before the next CO visit?
Steve
"the minds of billy milligan" was written by daniel keyes, who may be better known for his work, "flowers for algernon.".
a few of the remarks made in recent threads regarding "enlightenment" and "spiritual awakening" made me recall the book, although it's been roughly 20 years since i've read it.
i can still remember the day i bought it, at my favorite half price books on guadalupe, in austin, tx.. unlike "flowers for algernon", tmbm is non-fiction.
Big Tex
I'm unfamliar with the book, is/was he in therapy? I would hope the goal would be to integrate the personalities back into the core person
The book is still available, I saw it offered through Amazon and others. It's a sensational read. I'm going off a two-decade old memeory here, but it seems that he was close to complete integration by the close of the book. Comments I've read on his case recently indicate that the integration wasn't successful.
I'm still curious, and I truly appreciate the insightful comments and observations of all of you. Now, we can just wait for the movie, where a hollywood producer and Leonardo DiCaprio can lay all our questions to rest... (right...)
It was great to meet you in Texas, Chris.
Steve
well friends, i have some great news.
i have landed a job on maui, hi.
puternut is moving on......... as most of you know, i have been in wa, state for too long.
Best of luck to you, Puter. I'm glad we had an opportunity to meet before you fled to the island. Hey, folks scuba dive there, you know...
Steve
"the minds of billy milligan" was written by daniel keyes, who may be better known for his work, "flowers for algernon.".
a few of the remarks made in recent threads regarding "enlightenment" and "spiritual awakening" made me recall the book, although it's been roughly 20 years since i've read it.
i can still remember the day i bought it, at my favorite half price books on guadalupe, in austin, tx.. unlike "flowers for algernon", tmbm is non-fiction.
I apologize for the misplaced quotation marks. I'm still quite the novice at this.
Steve
"the minds of billy milligan" was written by daniel keyes, who may be better known for his work, "flowers for algernon.".
a few of the remarks made in recent threads regarding "enlightenment" and "spiritual awakening" made me recall the book, although it's been roughly 20 years since i've read it.
i can still remember the day i bought it, at my favorite half price books on guadalupe, in austin, tx.. unlike "flowers for algernon", tmbm is non-fiction.
Lady Lee I think you've already found these links, but I'll provide them in case others would like to see them. I could not make the OSU campus paper an active link, but the second link will take you to the interview with Milligan.
www.thelantern.com/news/2002/10/31/ Campus/Not-The.First.Osu.Serial.Rapist-311820.shtml
www.astraeasweb.net/plural/milligan.html
Some studies have shown that these behaviors often did have some experiental component to them. I recall where some people were spoken to as a young child in another language (as was one of my clients who had a personality who only spoke French - her father /abuser only spoke to her in French) or one who was blind (she had been locked in a dark closet for hours on end) and one who only barked like a dog (she had been treated like a dog and her food dish was on the floor under the table with no utensils)
A passively learned behaviour component seems reasonable in those cases. In Milligan's case, his behaviors seem so extreme, I have a difficult time embracing that as an explanation. Without a lot more information on his upbringing and influences, I'm still just full of questions.
As for people like Milligan - I think I would have to read the story again (yes I still have the book lol)
Congratulations for keeping the book! I think I tossed it in a spasm of self-righteousness while still a true believer.
Frankiespeakin Thank you for your summation. Jung had my head swimming.
I think and I say that cautiously,,that these different personalities are just part of the collective unconsciousness which we are all connected to,,and that this man's seemly posessions are cause by what Jung calls "oposites" or this man's refusal to acknowlege certain evil tendancies he has and these denials have lead to these multible personalities that take posession of him.
Satanus This is not far from the view I held as a true believer, after my first reading. I actually thought dey wuz deminzzzz...
I suppose suggesting that some of these personalities may be free roaming spirits of dead people is going off the deep end. They may have attatched themselves through cracks in the psyche. Maybe milligan invited them, calling for help while he was being abused. Just thoughts.
Markfromcali Thanks for your clarification, Mark. I do embrace your conclusion, that "in the end what you want is someone to be a coherent whole." In the meantime though, I remain fascinated by the "how" and "why" of the matter.
Steve, I didn't think you thought that, but clearly some people attribute enlightenment to having special knowledge or powers, and I just wanted to address that point. From a technical perspective my post probably wasn't all that informative, but basically I just want to point out that even if there is special knowledge or power, there may be suffering. Rather than diving into this particular issue, I think it is good to take a step back and look at the extremes of the dynamics of fragmentation and unification. Sometimes an intellectual analysis is not all that helpful, because essentially the mental activity is again one of taking apart. Basically I could care less about access to special knowledge or ability, or understanding such phenomena, its like where the bible says if you have all these things but do not have love, you are nothing. Likewise having sophisticated thought systems to frame it without an appreciation of this truth will not bring about healing. You may be able to affect therapeutic change, but in the end what you want is someone to be a coherent whole. I suppose this might technically be considered off topic, but I don't intend to hijack - just wanted to throw that in there.
Steve
"the minds of billy milligan" was written by daniel keyes, who may be better known for his work, "flowers for algernon.".
a few of the remarks made in recent threads regarding "enlightenment" and "spiritual awakening" made me recall the book, although it's been roughly 20 years since i've read it.
i can still remember the day i bought it, at my favorite half price books on guadalupe, in austin, tx.. unlike "flowers for algernon", tmbm is non-fiction.
The idea of suddenly knowing a martial art, or several languages, seems unlikely to be a passively learned behaikour.
Truth is stranger than fiction, huh?
Thank you, LT. That's what keeps me thinking.
Steve
"the minds of billy milligan" was written by daniel keyes, who may be better known for his work, "flowers for algernon.".
a few of the remarks made in recent threads regarding "enlightenment" and "spiritual awakening" made me recall the book, although it's been roughly 20 years since i've read it.
i can still remember the day i bought it, at my favorite half price books on guadalupe, in austin, tx.. unlike "flowers for algernon", tmbm is non-fiction.
Frankiespeakin So what's your take?
Lady Lee In your experience, are the bizarre array of talents, languages, and physical skills of Billy Milligan's personalities common to others with MPD/DID?
Steve
"the minds of billy milligan" was written by daniel keyes, who may be better known for his work, "flowers for algernon.".
a few of the remarks made in recent threads regarding "enlightenment" and "spiritual awakening" made me recall the book, although it's been roughly 20 years since i've read it.
i can still remember the day i bought it, at my favorite half price books on guadalupe, in austin, tx.. unlike "flowers for algernon", tmbm is non-fiction.
Thanks for all your comments, everyone. I was beginning to think I'd cleared the room again...
Leolaia I, too, thought the experiences fantastic. I googled Billy Milligan, and found a few sites that offered observations on his case, one that held an interview with him in 1996, and an Ohio State campus site that contained an article on his criminal activities there.
Lady Lee Thank you for your insight. Your comments reminded me that Milligan's personalities often struggled for dominance; I recall that the operating personality had to concede the spotlight willingly during his treatment. Billy's comments in the 1996 interview are interesting. He seems skeptical of those MPD's who can switch quickly from one personality to the other. I'd link to the site, but I'm afraid I'm not that fascile with the computer just yet. I'll see if I can persuade Princess to show me how.
Steve
"the minds of billy milligan" was written by daniel keyes, who may be better known for his work, "flowers for algernon.".
a few of the remarks made in recent threads regarding "enlightenment" and "spiritual awakening" made me recall the book, although it's been roughly 20 years since i've read it.
i can still remember the day i bought it, at my favorite half price books on guadalupe, in austin, tx.. unlike "flowers for algernon", tmbm is non-fiction.
Mark "Well, obviously, this just goes to show the different ideas people attribute to enlightenment." Mark, I do not attribute or even relate the experience of Billy Milligan to the process of enlightenment. Had I believed them to be related, I would have posted the comment as a continuation of the Kandalini thread. My recollection of the book was triggered by the Kandalini discussion, and I'm interested in possible explanations. While it sounds as though people pursue enlightenment in many different ways, Milligan's experience was tragic, involuntary, and gut wrenching to read.
LT Agreed, on the potential of the human mind. As I've discussed this book with others over the years, the idea has been floated that the unique talents, skills, and languages manifest in Milligan may have resulted from his exposure to sources of information on those subjects, with his mind perfecting those talents, skills, and languages from there. I'm not one to place any limits on the potential of the human mind, but the environment in which Milligan was raised (rural Ohio, if I recall correctly) makes that line of thinking quite a reach. But, I'm happy to reach.
Megadude Cases of MPD always catch my interest. What was your impression of the man?
Steve
"the minds of billy milligan" was written by daniel keyes, who may be better known for his work, "flowers for algernon.".
a few of the remarks made in recent threads regarding "enlightenment" and "spiritual awakening" made me recall the book, although it's been roughly 20 years since i've read it.
i can still remember the day i bought it, at my favorite half price books on guadalupe, in austin, tx.. unlike "flowers for algernon", tmbm is non-fiction.
"The Minds of Billy Milligan" was written by Daniel Keyes, who may be better known for his work, "Flowers For Algernon."
A few of the remarks made in recent threads regarding "enlightenment" and "spiritual awakening" made me recall the book, although it's been roughly 20 years since I've read it. I can still remember the day I bought it, at my favorite Half Price Books on Guadalupe, in Austin, TX.
Unlike "Flowers For Algernon", TMBM is non-fiction. As a child, Billy Milligan was beaten, sexually abused, and neglected. He was arrested as an adult, and charged with rape. Psychiatric evaluation revealed what has come to be known as "multiple personality disorder", with 24 distinct personalities occupying space and dominance inside Billy. Further probing revealed that the rapes were committed while Billy was under the control of a female, lesbian personality. Several of the personas were artists, each highly skilled in different media. One was a musician, a saxaphonist. Here's where it gets interesting: One of the personalities was a physician, who could read and write accurate medical material in fluent arabic. Another personality was a martial arts expert. This personality would typically take dominance when Billy was under threat or attack. In one instance, this character disarmed and incapacitated police that tried to arrest Milligan. An interesting note about the martial arts character: he spoke a very rare Serbo-Croatian dialect. While under this influence, Milligan was able to rip a toilet fixture off the wall of his prison cell, a feat of incredible strength.
I did a web seach, and found that the book is still available. A film may be in the works, entitled, "The Crowded Room", with actors John Cusack, Brad Pitt, Billy Crudup, Johnny Depp, Sean Penn, and L. DeCaprio all pursuing the lead role.
I am in no way inferring that Milligan's MPD should be likened to the experiences of those who expressed themselves in the "Kandalini Awakenings" thread. I was reminded of the book after all these years by Dolphman's comment about sanskrit chanting... and I find it personally challenging to explain such events.
Discussing this book in the past really freaked some people out... I could clear a room full of J-ho's in seconds. People from a dub background generally backed away, muttering, "deminzzz", while those not grounded in fundamentalism speculated that this was a case of the vast potential of the human mind, able to subconsciously absorb, retain, and expound complex material based on limited exposure.
I confess, I'm not entirely satisfied with either explanation, and I've been thinking about this for a long, long, time.
What do you think?
Steve
